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#176891 - 05/12/08 01:30 PM Re: apple or banana? [Re: tsuwm]
Myridon Myridon addict Registered: 10/24/05 Posts: 486 Loc: Dallas, TX	I don't read Hebrew but it seems to be one word. Strong' Concordance suggests that the Hebrew word is "perhaps of foriegn derivation". Gesenius's Lexicon says "where the Indian fig, or Musa paradisiaca, Germ Paradies=feigenbaum, with large leaves is apparently meant". Musa paradisiaca is in the banana family but I think it's considered more of a plantain. Ancient writings and traditional translations thereof are not generally a great source of accurate biological data, e.g. whether hyraxes or coneys are unclean and what type of sea creature is chilazon - the source of the blue dye Tekhelet required for the tzitzit's fringe. If someone hadn't seen a banana and found an oblong fruit with soft flesh and lots of tiny seeds, they might class it as a fig (especially if they didn't want to introduce a foreign word - and then did Adam and Eve takest of the leaves of the tree-like pseudostem which hast long fruits that groweth in bunches like hands pointing upwards - oh, hell, I'll just say "fig"). I have some fish in my aquarium that were discovered in Myanmar about two years ago and were thought to be a type of rasbora because they looked similar to another fish that was thought to be a rasbora. They were exported to pet stores everywhere as "galaxy rasboras". After microscopic examination, they were officially declared to be a type of danio (a different sub-family) over a year ago but most are still sold as rasboras. Now, the identity of the other fish is in question as well. Edited by Myridon (05/12/08 01:34 PM)
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#176894 - 05/12/08 03:41 PM Re: apple or banana? [Re: zmjezhd]
zmjezhd zmjezhd Pooh-Bah Registered: 08/13/05 Posts: 1617 Loc: R'lyeh	FWIW, I contacted a friend at Bar-Ilan University and asked him about the term "Eve's fig" for banana, and here's what he had to say: Quote: Anyhow, I had never heard the term "te'enat Havva" before; but checking the standard dictionary of Modern Hebrew, Hammillon HeHadash, by Avraham Even-Shoshan, I discover that the term as "an accepted name for the banana." Reuben Alcalay's The Complete Hebrew English Dictionary also lists it but calls it obsolete. The word for fig is not plural but is the construct form which is kind of like a possessive case but on the possessed noun not the possessor.
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#176896 - 05/12/08 04:09 PM Re: apple or banana? [Re: zmjezhd]
BranShea BranShea Pooh-Bah Registered: 06/23/06 Posts: 1998 Loc: Netherlands, the Hague	> comparing apples and oranges again, jheem? It just needed that little push from collegues apparently to get to the final truth of the matter. I'm grateful for your combined special efforts. It may not be relevant as to the point of the tree-story; it is important for the word and more so, it restores my bit of faith in journalism.Thanks a lot! _________________________ above all shadows rides the sun (JRRT)
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#177088 - 05/22/08 01:02 AM Re: apple or banana? [Re: BranShea]
Daniel Koeppel Daniel Koeppel stranger Registered: 05/22/08 Posts: 1 Loc: USA	Hi - I'm the author of "Banana," the book which mentions the Hebrew/"Fig of Eve"/Banana/Eden translation (Mr. Chapman's book, as far as I know, doesn't discuss the issue, as it is a history - and a good history - of the United Fruit Company, and not of the fruit itself.) I appreciate the discussion here, as it added to my knowledge of the issue. If anyone is interested, here is one of my original sources: http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0411/is_/ai_n8967470
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#177089 - 05/22/08 06:33 AM Re: apple or banana? [Re: Daniel Koeppel]
Faldage Faldage Carpal Tunnel Registered: 12/01/00 Posts: 11493	I'm not familiar with the history of bananas. Did those Bronze Age sheepherders even know about bananas? How long has [TEXT NOT REPRODUCIBLE IN ASCII] meant "banana" in Hebrew? Is it of ancient lineage or is it a modern creation?
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#177097 - 05/22/08 03:31 PM Re: apple or banana? [Re: Daniel Koeppel]
BranShea BranShea Pooh-Bah Registered: 06/23/06 Posts: 1998 Loc: Netherlands, the Hague	Hi- I'm neither a language expert nor have I great knowledge of bible texts . I've read the source text you gave the link to. Then I picked up my old 1951 Dutch translation of Genesis, that gives only this: (excuse crude translation in English) After God has refused the sacrifice. "And the Lord said to Cain: Why are you displeased and why is you face clouded? Might you not lift it up, if you act right? But if you do not act right, sin lies waiting at the door and wants to get hold of you, though you must master it. But Cain said to his brother Abel: (Let us go onto the field) When now they were in the field, Cain stood up against his brother Abel and killed him." Then God curses him and tells him he will be a fugitive and wanderer upon this earth. Then Cain says that his crime is too heavy to bear the punishment and God gives him the Cain's sign as a protection and he goes to the land Nod, East of Eeden. Seems very plain compared to that source text. _________________________ above all shadows rides the sun (JRRT)
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#177110 - 05/22/08 11:25 PM Re: apple or banana? [Re: BranShea]
Zed Zed Pooh-Bah Registered: 08/27/02 Posts: 1689 Loc: British Columbia, Canada	Hi Daniel Fabulous to have the horse's mouth here to weigh in. (Neigh in?)
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